Once an actor finds his name popping up in Oscar conversations, he’s pretty much arrived in the industry, right? Actually, no, not necessarily, says Jeremy Strong, who plays unscrupulous lawyer and Donald Trump mentor Roy Cohn to much acclaim in “The Apprentice.”
“There’s a thing called ‘arrival fallacy,’ which is that the horizon is just always receding. You don’t arrive. I mean, I’ve never felt like I’ve arrived. It’s just a search, and you’re on the frontier of uncertainty and doubt, and taking risks.”
“And then the bottom falls out, and you keep looking,” adds Adrien Brody, who plays the Holocaust survivor and visionary architect at the heart of Brady Corbet’s “The Brutalist.”
“That frontier just keeps moving,” Strong agrees.
Even now, with this season’s breakout performances and glowing reviews, a conversation among several actors shows they share the same fears and doubts as the rest of us.
“I don’t think I ever looked at the next job and went, ‘All right, it’s coming and here we go.’ I think it’s always just the terror of, ‘OK, I got the job. Am I going to ruin it?’ The fear of, ‘I’m wrong for it,’” says Kieran Culkin, who stars in the affecting “A Real Pain” with the film’s writer-director, Jesse Eisenberg.
These three actors — along with Peter Sarsgaard, who stars in “September 5,” about the terrorist attack at the 1972 Munich Olympics; Colman Domingo, who plays an incarcerated man who discovers the transformative power of art in “Sing Sing”; and Sebastian Stan, who not only plays the future president in “The Apprentice” with Strong but also stars in “A Different Man,” a cautionary story of inner discovery — got together last month for The Envelope Actors Roundtable moderated by Spectrum News 1 host Kelvin Washington. They shared their thoughts on auditioning, responding to fear and the hard truths of the world around us.
These excerpts from that conversation have been edited for length and clarity.
It’s a journey. It’s a process. So how do you approach auditions?
Sebastian Stan: The best advice I ever got was from Israel Hicks, who was the theater head at Rutgers, where I went to school. And he always said, “You’ve got to just bring the day with you to the audition.” Whatever’s happening up to walking in that door just … like maybe you spilled coffee on you, or you got a bad phone call, or whatever. You just bring in the truth of that day.
Peter Sarsgaard: But for me, every day that I had an audition that I cared about was a day of high anxiety. And so I only did well in the auditions where it was extremely high stakes. I couldn’t deny what I was feeling. I would’ve looked like a psychopath. I had to let it out. And so the jobs … I remember doing auditions sometimes where I would be bizarrely emotional in a scene that was not emotional. Because I f— wanted it.
Jeremy Strong: I had a manager once who told me, “You know, you seem desperate. That’s why you’re not getting it: You seem desperate.” And I said, “I am desperate.” This is like we’re fighting for our lives trying to do this thing.
Sarsgaard: It feels like that sometimes.
Strong: … and you really want to work. It does feel miraculous when you get the chance to work.
Adrien Brody: I booked a movie when I was 14, which was one of the first things I went out for. And my dad took me to the audition, and he told me, “Go in there like you already have it. You’re just showing them how you’re going to do it. Don’t go in there asking for the job.”
Kieran Culkin: I think I was told in my first audition almost the opposite, which was like —
Brody: Go and beg them.
Culkin: — It was like, “You’re going into something that’s not yours so you don’t have to feel, so [acts stressed].” You said your first audition was something you booked?
Brody: And then it was 17 years of not getting work.
From auditions to current performances, Colman, you play John “Divine G” Whitfield, a man who was wrongfully incarcerated in “Sing Sing,” and the real guy is also executive producer. What’s that experience like, trying to showcase his journey while he’s there and a part of this film?
Colman Domingo: You have to honor the spirit of the person but also liberate yourself from a portrayal of them. I feel like even when I met him, I downloaded information. I didn’t ask him anything, because I’m not that person who wants to pry into someone’s life or say, “How was it for you in the inside?,” all that stuff. We just got to know each other like we get to know anyone, you know what I mean? The most banal, simple things.
And there were two things about him: when I found out that he considered himself sort of a jailhouse lawyer and how he was always in the law library, and he was advocating for others for good food, for his own liberation eventually, but also even — when he founded this theater company there — Rehabilitation Through the Arts. And all these inmates were finding that thing that was so sorely needed in this dangerous place: a place to unpack, to be tender, to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. Grown men going to places that they may have never been allowed to experience or be, especially Black and brown men in particular. I knew I had to invite in tenderness and a grace that he maintained while he was on the inside.
Kieran, you were working with Jesse Eisenberg, who’s also the screenwriter and director. Which version was easier to work with, Jesse the actor or Jesse the director?
Culkin: He was great at all of those things. I mean, going into it, he wrote a beautiful script. And I knew him to be a great actor. I didn’t know what he was going to be like as a director. But that was the first time I’ve worked with an actor that also directed. Have you guys done that yet? It’s tough. That is like, Day 1, him doing a scene with you as your partner, and then they go, “Cut,” and then go, “Here’s how you can do it better.” And I’m sitting here going like, “Oh, you’re going to judge me? Because I got f— notes for you too. I know how you can do it better too.” And then the defenses go up and all that. But he was fantastic. And it was only his second film [as writer-director].
I think we can all relate to your character, Benji. It’s almost one of those, “I love him because he’s crazy. But he also drives me crazy because he’s crazy.” What part of that resonated with you?
Culkin: When I read it, I found the guy to be really surprising and really just … I felt like I understood him right away and understood this dynamic right away. But then 20 pages in, he would say something completely surprising. And I went, “Oh, this guy, almost in spite of you, if you asked him a question, he’s going to give you something you’re not going to expect.”
And I loved it. So I just went, “I’m not going to prepare at all.” I didn’t read it again for a year. And then right before we did it, I read it once. I would not want to know what the scene we were doing was until I was walking to set that day, which would give Jesse a lot of anxiety. I’d be like, “What are we shooting today?” And he’s like, “You’re kidding. You have a whole speech.”
Brody: You should work with Ken Loach. I did a movie with him, and he would give us half the scene. And so you wouldn’t know what the end of that scene was because he was working with predominantly nonactors. And then so whoever the catalyst was in the scene got that section. And this person would fall down, and you didn’t know if that person just —
Culkin: Tripped or that was the scene? I want to do that. I want to work with that person.
Sarsgaard: I auditioned for him, and it was like, “All right, let’s just improvise.” And I’m like, “Well, give me a … Where do I begin?” “Just do something.” And I found it incredibly difficult. For me, the reason I do it is the story. So I don’t need to know what I’m going to do in the scene, but I’m driving the story?
Strong: Peter and I had to do a thing yesterday called Fearless Performances. And we didn’t have time to say it, but I woke up this morning thinking it’s such a misnomer because there’s so much fear involved, at least for me. [To Culkin] I was thinking about a conversation we had when you were thinking about doing Jesse’s movie. You were on the precipice of it. It felt like a big risk and something you hadn’t done. And what I love about what we all get to do is attempt to do something that you don’t know that you can do. I’m working in sort of Bruce Springsteen world right now, and he said something in his autobiography, that “the experience that you have, the exhilaration of it and the depth of it is directly proportional to the void that you’re dancing over.” And so I find that that equation works.
Stan: I think all of it is fear now. For me, literally, if I’m thinking I can’t do it, [it] is maybe the biggest sign that I should be trying to do something. It’s so easy to fall into these little tricks, what’s worked before, and you just do it again. So, especially with these last two for me, it was so paralyzing at times that I was almost driven by it.
Playing Donald Trump, was that fear? He’s been the president, he’s going to be the president again. What were the challenges or your mind–set going into that?
Stan: Well, I mean, this is such a collaboration. It’s the director, it’s who are your partners. It’s this whole thing about trust and being able to go there with somebody. But then, there’s something about when you get older and you want to feel like you’re part of a meaningful work. You’re adding to a conversation, reflecting these times that we’re in no matter how uncomfortable they are.
Strong: The movie is sort of about this relationship in a sense, a love story. This sort of dark chrysalis that created the Donald Trump that we know today. What joined them together, I think, were kind of dark affinities. They were both these outsiders from the boroughs with tremendous life force and ambition with a shared, I think, lack of scruple or ethical core, for whom winning was the only moral measure.
It’s been strange to talk about this movie as a movie right now, because it’s about a very living danger, and I look at what’s happening in this country right now, and I think you can trace so much of it back to the influence of Roy Cohn and his ideology, and his nihilism, and his sort of gospel of hatred and divisiveness. That’s the political side. The creative side was really fulfilling. Roles like this are kind of a holy grail for an actor, where there’s a degree of difficulty, and you want to try to transform, and you want it also to be alive and not just mimetic and all those things.
Some of these films, there is a historical gravity to them. Adrien, with “The Brutalist,” your character comes to America after the genocide but then realizes it’s difficult to succeed here. Where did you go to channel this character?
Brody: Well, my mother is a Hungarian immigrant and an artist, a New York photographer. And she’s also someone who has kind of guided me in my understanding of art and the yearning to leave behind something that is meaningful and brings more light than darkness to this world. She and her parents fled war-torn Budapest in 1956 on the back of a truck, under a bed of corn, as they were shooting flares and trying to basically shoot down people fleeing the Soviet occupation.
I witnessed how hard it was for [my grandfather], because his English-language skills were not up to par, it prevented him from getting work. And so that’s a layer of connection, a feeling of knowing the journey and very different from [character László Tóth’s] journey, but there are very many parallels. And his journey of fleeing Nazi-occupied Europe and surviving concentration camps. I can see how past suffering informs insight and informs a kind of creative fervor and the need to leave something indelible behind.
Strong: There’s an intersectionality with these films as stories with real things in our world. I feel like the world is on fire. And there’s a role for storytelling that is so essential in our world right now. And I don’t think there’s another art form that has that connective power, arguably.
Stan: And the idea that in a system like Sing Sing, there’s a level of acceptance of self that’s happening on such a deeper, more profound level than it’s actually happening in the real world. Because I feel like “The Apprentice” and “A Different Man” are so much about identity and self-truth, and the loss of self, and the denial of reality, which is a very real thing that’s happening now. I don’t know if people are interested in the truth or confronting themselves, or wanting to accept themselves. People are more interested in inventing their own version of things.
Peter, talking about the gravity of world events: “September 5” does this in such detail, what was happening there in Munich. What it’s like having to deal with something of that magnitude?
Sarsgaard: Just by talking to the guys involved, I mean, they don’t think about the fact they’re involved in something of that magnitude, because it’s like game day. They’re just in it. They just went 22 straight hours of just doing it, and doing it, and doing it. They pointed a live camera at a balcony, and 700 million people watched that image. It’s a balcony, but it is the potential for violence that is really keeping them there. For some of them, their hearts are pounding because they’re hoping for the survival of the people that are in there. And I think that’s a good many people. But we have to acknowledge this other part of humanity that’s a kind of schadenfreude where we’re lusting for some violence.
The way that at any given moment in our lives, right now, we could pick up our phone, and the most horrendous thing imaginable is going on in the world, and then we can sit and joke with each other, and eat popcorn, and go watch a comedy. I mean, I don’t really have the answer. I think one of the lovely things that my movie does is ask a lot of questions about the way that we consume media, about, “Does a camera tell the truth anymore?” This idea that these guys had new technology, which was a live camera, and the minute the hostage crisis happened, they pointed it.
Well, now why do we have to watch a live crisis situation? Is that news? Is that going to help us understand our society better? Could we learn about it tomorrow? Is it going to help the hostages get freed? Now, obviously with police brutality, stuff like that, I would say wonderful. But to get our daily news, when everyone has a camera in their pocket — first of all, there’s point of view. This frame is not the
truth. The truth is all of it, right? And there’s also AI. There’s a million different reasons why we can’t trust an image anymore.
Sebastian, in “A Different Man,” there’s a self-reflection in your character, who has an opportunity to present himself differently. What did you learn about how we view ourselves versus how others view us? And talk about working with Adam Pearson, who has some of these same physical challenges in the film.
Stan: Adam Pearson, who’s a great actor from “Under the Skin,” and he’s got neurofibromatosis, which are these tumors that develop at around 3 or 4 years old. And the biggest gift I was able to receive working on that movie was his mother coming up to me and saying afterward, “I’ve always wished for someone to walk in his shoes. And you were able to do that.” And I was lucky. We had a great prosthetics artist, Mike Marino. And I was able to walk around the city in that, and no one recognized me. And it was a very powerless experience … a terrifying experience. How people pretend you’re totally nonexistent.
Well, part of why the movie’s special, and I wanted so deeply to be involved with it, is that it talks about this curiosity that we all have. But we haven’t learned about the regular person out there. The regular person has to fight against these narratives that we’ve grown up with in terms of not knowing how to handle that moment. So two things happen: ignorance or judgment. And the filmmaker, who’s disfigured himself, really wanted to bring it out in the open. And for us to go on this journey and get more in touch with how can we approach that in a different way. But on a more relatable basis, it really is about lying to yourself. And once the lie happens, what you have to keep doing to maintain the lie and suppress the truth.
Brody: And they’re so hard to undo.
Stan: And how far we can go to not face that painful moment with ourselves. And that’s what the character endures. By the time [he sees it] it’s too late, his life’s been taken away from him.
Thanks for being here, gentlemen …
Brody: This has been kind of special. I didn’t know what to anticipate. We’re all kind of really and thematically talking about what’s propelling each of us. And with the exception of you needing f— panic and —
Culkin: I was going to say, we’re all a little bit different.
Brody: But I love that too though. You know what it is? You’re super honest. You are honest with your work.
Culkin: Yeah, thanks.
Brody: Your comedic sensibilities.
Culkin: [To camera] You still rolling on this? Let’s get a nice sound bite.
